Előbb nézzük a 2007-es Mr. Olympia végeredményét:
1 Jay Cutler
2 Victor Martinez
3 Dexter Jackson
4 Ronnie Coleman
5 Dennis Wolf
6 Melvin Anthony
7 Silvio Samuel Saviour
8 Gustavo Badell
9 Johnnie O Jackson
10 David Henry
11 Ronny Rockel
12 Darrem Charles
13 Hidetada Yamagishi
14 Toney Freeman
15 Will Harris
- Eddie Abbew
- Paco Bautista
- Mark Dugdale
- Marcus Haley
- Markus Rühl
- Sergey Shelestov
- Quincy Taylor
- Vince Taylor
- Bill Wilmore
Milos a fórumán, illetve a bodybuilding.com fórumán egy-egy topikban hosszú fejtegetésbe kezdett az Olympia-ról, a helyezésekről, az IFBB bíráskodásról... Velem is rengeteget beszélt erről és el kell ismerni, hogy a legtöbb tárgypontban igaza van.
Nézzünk bele az eszmefuttatásába...angolosok, mi a vélemény? Egyenlőre le nem fordítom...
...madinorbi...?
FROM
www.bodybuilding.com:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=87128953#post87128953Quote:
Originally Posted by KRN-GOOKX891 View Post
if u were a judge wat would've been ur top ten?MY 2007 MR.OLYMPIA PLACING:
1/2/3- Dennis Wolf
1/2/3- Victor Martinez
1/2/3- Dexter Jackson
I would really have to see them in direct comparison to be able to judge with absolute certainty - but these guys were top three
4/5 - Johnnie Jackson
4/5 - Melvin Anthony
6/7 - Gustavo Badell
6/7 - Jay Cutler
8 - Ronnie Coleman
9/10/11 - Hidetada Yamagishi
9/10/11 - Ronnie Rockel
9/10/11 - David Henry
12 - Darrem Charles
13- Silvio Samuel
etc...
And I base this placing on PHYSIQUES ONLY - not politics...And when I have a time I could elaborate how and why I placed EACH AND EVERY COMPETITOR...
TheGame76
The only thing that really sticks out to me is Hidetatada up in 9/10/11 and Silvio all the way down in 13th. Could you please explain that one?Yes, very much so...and please don't forget that I trained both of them for few months ON DAILY BASES and saw them pose next to each other countless number of times...
Silvio is also PHENOMENAL BODYBUILDER BY ALL MEANS and me putting him LOWER than where he placed is absolutely NOT from any vendetta (what many would think...)
I think he considerably worsened his balance - and his legs are now really overpowering his upper body in many poses...
His back is also considerably smaller and somewhat softer than earlier this year...and that could be said for the rest of his upper body as well.
Look at the photos from the Ironman, Sacramento, Arnold Classic and compare it to Europa show (which he won) and Olympia...
When he lifts his arms up (front and back double biceps pose) it is clearly visible how small is his torso in comparison to his legs...+ what is surprising - his great arms don't look to impressive once he lifts them up...
What seems to be phenomenal arm (in down position) becomes below average arm when is in double biceps pose...(Contrary to Hide - who's arms are becoming incredible...)
So :
#1 - balance issue (legs too big for his upper body)
#2 - torso quite small/ somewhat narrow
#3 - calves need much work
#4 - lifted arms - not as impressive
#5 - lat spread - not as wide
#6 - posing while improved still NOT at professional level
#7 - still making "mistakes" of letting his stomach out on stage (occasionally enough to be photographed with his stomach out.../see some comparison photos on getbig or my site...)
to name the few...
Now, Hide is not perfect either (nobody is perfect...except me - off course...but that is another story...) but he was more muscular, thicker, wider (yes wider even though Hide is not particularly wide), fuller...with better stage presence, presentation, posing...
Symmetry round:
FRONT, both sides and rear relax pose - Balance (Hide), Shape (Silvio), Conditioning (tie), Muscularity (Hide), Presentation (Hide)
Front double biceps: Hide
Rear double biceps: Hide
Front lat spread: some advantages Silvio...some Hide (we can analyze deeply)
Rear lat spread:some advantages Silvio...some Hide (we can analyze deeply)
Side chest: Hide (Silvio is good in this pose - but overall impression goes to Hide...and I am talking about EVERY ASPECT of bodybuilding I am considering when judging)
Side triceps: same as above
Abs and thighs: Silvio
Most muscular: close
Posing routine: Hide
Judging should consider:
1- SHAPE, BALANCE, AESTHETICS, SYMMETRY, EXTREME V-TAPER, FLAT AND DEEP ABS, BEAUTY OF PHYSIQUE, HEALTHY SKIN...AND HEALTHY OVERALL APPEARANCE...as ONE ASPECT OF JUDGING
2- CONDITIONING, MUSCULARITY, EXTREME LEAN LOOK, DRYNESS, SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, TIE-INS, "GRAINY-NESS", "HARDNESS", TIGHT SKIN, "SHREDDED-NESS"...and other EXTREMES of similar nature...
But, here I would also consider muscle Glycogen storage - and FULLNESS as conditioning part of judging rather than MUSCLE MASS ASPECT of judging...
3- MUSCLE MASS, THICKNESS, WIDTH, ROUND MUSCLE BELLIES (could be considered in aspect #1 as well...)...and other extremes of similar nature...
4- PRESENTATION, POSING, ABILITY TO SHOW PHYSIQUE THE WAY IT SUPPOSE TO LOOK (not leaving it up for imagination of others to THINK what certain physique could look like IF presented correctly...), MISTAKE FREE POSING (#1- many competitors forget to squeeze certain muscles...and more often than not - judges would just go with: "well, if Jay squeezed his legs on Friday during the prejudging - he would have looked better so I would give him this pose considering that I know what his legs and physique looks like IF he posed correctly, #2 - many competitors let their "pregnancy show"...and that's a no-no, #3 - also many fail to find THE BEST WAY to do certain poses...etc...etc...), STAGE PRESENCE (standing in line up PERFECTLY...AT ALL TIMES), HITTING EVERY POSE WITH CONFIDENCE AND AUTHORITY, CHOREOGRAPHING ROUTINES with perfect transitions, SHOWING PHYSIQUE TO EMPHASIZE THE STRENGTH OF SOMEONES PHYSIQUE (and not the weaknesses...Many fail to realize that POSING ROUND is not being judged for actual posing or movement...Fat, out of shape ballet artist or out of shape professional dancer should not win the posing round by virtue of his posing skills...Posing round is PHYSIQUE ROUND where athletes could/should show their strengths USING POSES OTHER THAN MANDATORIES that present their physiques in that "special light" bodybuilders want to be known for...So, aesthetic guy could emphasize beauty of his physique, aesthetic look, perfect shape, symmetry and balance by doing EXACT POSES to exemplify WHAT HIS ATTRIBUTES ARE...
Conditioned guy on another hand could present his shredded physique by doing poses to show his shredded muscles (or maybe hide cellulite?)...and muscular guy should do as many muscular posses...thick guy presenting his thickness, wide guy his width...V-tapered guy his extreme V-taper...etc...etc
If someone succeeds in presentation of his strengths THAN AND ONLY THAN we could say OK - he should have place higher as he is: THIS (aesthetic, balanced, symmetrical...) or THAT (conditioned, more muscular, bigger, thicker, wider...)...
But, many times fans go with picture of their favorite champion AS THEY REMEMBER HIM from before - while only shadow of that physique is being displayed on the stage at the moment - yet "shadow" gets the same amount of points as "sentimental judgment" or "paid dues" treatment from the judges that ALSO consider what once was or what could have been (if in shape)...
WE NEED TO START JUDGING PHYSIQUES ON THE DAY OF THE CONTEST REGARDLESS OF NAMES, PREVIOUS OUTINGS...ETC...POLITICS...
I am in a hurry actually so maybe I am rushing this a bit...but I will get back to make some points...or rather - maybe WE CAN ALL START NEW THREAD ABOUT JUDGING - and NOT to argue with judges and federation...Not to criticize but rather to START WORKING ON HELPING OUR OFFICIALS FINDING THE BEST WAY TO JUDGE...
To take that "subjectivity OUT" or at least reduce it to minimum...so we (ALL OF US WHO LOVE SPORT OF BODYBUILDING, ATHLETES AS WELL AS FANS) could have clear idea WHY some guy managed to place ahead of others...
Judges should be able to explain WHY they saw Jay superior to OTHERS at 2007 Mr. Olympia...
Did they saw him better in:
1- SHAPE, BALANCE, AESTHETICS, SYMMETRY, EXTREME V-TAPER, FLAT AND DEEP ABS, BEAUTY OF PHYSIQUE, HEALTHY SKIN...AND HEALTHY OVERALL APPEARANCE...department?
I don't think so...as I see many beating Jay in this aspect of judging.
2- CONDITIONING, MUSCULARITY, EXTREME LEAN LOOK, DRYNESS, SEPARATION, STRIATIONS, TIE-INS, "GRAINY-NESS", HARDNESS, TIGHT SKIN, SHREDDED-NESS...and other EXTREMES of similar nature...
But, here I would also consider muscle Glycogen storage - and FULLNESS as conditioning part of judging rather than MUSCLE MASS ASPECT of judging...
I don't think so - AGAIN...
3- MUSCLE MASS, THICKNESS, WIDTH, ROUND MUSCLE BELLIES (could be considered in aspect #1 as well...)...and other extremes of similar nature...
Maybe in this one? So this is "holly grail" of bodybuilding - BIGGER IS BETTER AND NOTHING ELSE MATTERS?
4- PRESENTATION, POSING, ABILITY TO SHOW PHYSIQUE THE WAY IT SUPPOSE TO LOOK
Again...NOT the case (in my book)...
So, let's help our judges...which will ultimately help our sport.
Give your point of view...and we could SOLVE THE PROBLEM - very easily...
Téma: Milos véleménye a 2007-es Mr. Olympia végeredményéről és a bíráskodásról (angol) (Megtekintve 6273 alkalommal)